Offered a choice, Charlie Kirk would have preferred not to enter a marijuana cloud to discuss theology, politics, science and the dangers of free speech.
But the Turning Point USA activist -- assassinated on September 10 at Utah Valley University -- had welcomed the opportunity to join comic Bill Maher on the "Club Random" podcast that aired this past Easter.
"Bill treated me great. … He was very pleasant, albeit at times rather crude," said Kirk, in an online commentary about the show. However, he quipped, if football players have to "play in the snow," then a "political commentator fighting for Jesus" needs to "play in the weed."
Maher was shaken by Kirk's bloody death. On his "Real Time" show days later, the religious agnostic and political liberal said: "I like everybody. … But he was shot under a banner that said, 'Prove me wrong,' because he was a debater, and too many people think that the way to do that -- to prove you wrong -- is to just eliminate you from talking altogether. So, the people who mocked his death or justified it, I think you're gross. I have no use for you."
Both men worked with security teams, due to death threats. Kirk described his calling with variations on this: "When people stop talking, really bad stuff starts. … What we as a culture have to get back to is being able to have a reasonable disagreement where violence is not an option."
In addition to discussing the potency of modernized marijuana, Kirk and Maher veered from science debates about gender dysphoria to the origins of ultimate truth, from Hollywood trust-fund "nepo babies" to myriad battles surrounding Kirk's friend, President Donald Trump.
The "real fun" began, said Kirk, with complex issues defined by Maher's "Religulous," a scathing critique of religious faith. Kirk knew the book inside out.
Maher stressed: "Jesus as a philosopher was a true revolutionary. … But the idea that it gets good in the next life was fairly, I think, revolutionary and the fact that you know if you're a good person in this life … this is just the pregame. You want the afterparty and the afterparty is just going to be awesome."
Kirk asked which would be better, a society led by people that "think that there is an afterlife, based on how you act" or people who believe the opposite.
"That's a great question because it certainly can turn people either way. It can make you fly planes into a building. I'm not speaking of any specific example," said Maher, sardonically.
"Sure," said Kirk, "It could also make you, like, blow up Oklahoma City."
Traditional faith can keep people straight, admitted Maher. "They truly are worried that if they do something out of line, illegal or immoral that the devil will in short order … be poking them in the ass with a pitchfork. And so, they don't do that, and I've got to give it up -- that's, you know, a positive."
Nevertheless, stressed Maher: "People always are going to want to believe a story. It's much better than the truth which is that things are random. … We don't know how we got here. We don't know why we're here. We don't know how the universe started. We're alone in the universe. … Nobody knows. I mean, that's why they call it faith."
Kirk asked point blank: "Do you hope you're wrong?"
Maher responded: "That's a great question."
Kirk continued: "Do you hope there's a heaven?"
Holding his liquor tumbler, Maher said: "I hope they figure out how I can live forever. I like it here with you, Charlie, drinking this and smoking pot."
Finally, they discussed Easter and the resurrection. Religious history is full of false messiahs and claims about eternal life, noted Maher.
But why, asked Kirk in his online commentary, "would the apostles willingly go and spread what then became their death certificate? Why would they go and do that if it didn't actually happen?"
Maher offered this bottom line on religion: "The human capacity to believe what's not true, to believe what you want to believe, is infinite."
As they parted, Kirk said: "That was a real pleasure. … Happy Easter, Bill."
Maher laughed and jokingly raised his hands: "He is risen."
Kirk responded, echoing ancient traditions: "He is risen, indeed."